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 Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle

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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Fri May 16, 2008 12:41 pm

I don't like this 4-man rotation idea. The starters will then only pitch 4 or max 5 innings and relievers have to do the job because of the additional load on the SPs.
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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Fri May 16, 2008 1:39 pm

gdennis59 wrote:
bobrob2004 wrote:
4-man rotation! clap

Serious or sarcastic?

Serious. Pitchers now-a-days are too protected. Back in the 60s or 70s it wasn't uncommon for a pitcher to have 25 CG and 300+ innings on 4-man rotations. 12 pitchers in the bullpen is too many also, as any good pitcher can pitch more than 1 inning. Pitchers back then didn't get anymore injured than they do now, yet now they don't have as big of a workload. And they get paid a lot more money. Doesn't quite make sense to me. scratch


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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Fri May 16, 2008 2:43 pm

I agree. Pitchers are soooooo babied nowadays.
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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Fri May 16, 2008 4:20 pm

During one of our games in Boston, the Boston announcers talked to one of their old time pitchers and he complained about this too. He said pitchers now in days are babied too much and the limited pitching makes them RUSTY instead of being worn out! He felt the pitchers are, just plain, not in good physical shape and that is where the injuries come from. He felt this pitch count stuff is crap, and the downfall of good baseball pitchers!

I agree there! If they have to have a 5 man rotation, then make them pitch complete games if they are still pitching ok!

In the next post, look at the top 25 leaders, in Tiger history, in some catagories and see if they are modern pitchers or our old heros!


“It takes pitching, hitting and defense. Any two can win. All three make you unbeatable.”    
–Joe Garagiola


Last edited by GoGetEmTigers on Mon May 19, 2008 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Fri May 16, 2008 4:22 pm

Wins
RankPlayer W IP
1.Hooks Dauss
222
3390.7
2.George Mullin
209
3394.0
3.Mickey Lolich
207
3361.7
4.Hal Newhouser
200
2944.0
5.Jack Morris
198
3042.7
6.Tommy Bridges
194
2826.3
7.Dizzy Trout
161
2591.7
8.Bill Donovan
141
2137.3
9.Earl Whitehill
133
2171.3
10.Frank Lary
123
2008.7
11.Dan Petry
119
1843.0
12.Jim Bunning
118
1867.3
13.Denny McLain
117
1593.0
14.Virgil Trucks
114
1800.7
15.Schoolboy Rowe
105
1445.0
16.Ed Killian
99
1536.7
17.Milt Wilcox
97
1495.3
18.Frank Tanana
96
1551.3
Ed Willett
96
1545.7
20.Fred Hutchinson
95
1464.0
21.Vic Sorrell
92
1671.7
22.Joe Coleman
88
1407.7
23.John Hiller
87
1242.0
24.Paul Foytack
81
1425.3
25.Walt Terrell
79
1328.0
Games
RankPlayer G_p IP
1.John Hiller
545
1242.0
2.Hooks Dauss
538
3390.7
3.Mickey Lolich
508
3361.7
4.Dizzy Trout
493
2591.7
5.Mike Henneman
491
669.7
6.Hal Newhouser
460
2944.0
7.Todd Jones
450
452.7
8.George Mullin
435
3394.0
9.Jack Morris
430
3042.7
10.Tommy Bridges
424
2826.3
11.Willie Hernandez
358
483.7
12.Aurelio Lopez
355
713.0
13.Hank Aguirre
334
1179.0
14.Jamie Walker
327
270.0
15.Earl Whitehill
325
2171.3
16.Virgil Trucks
316
1800.7
17.Dan Petry
306
1843.0
18.Jim Bunning
304
1867.3
Frank Lary
304
2008.7
20.Al Benton
296
1218.7
21.Paul Foytack
285
1425.3
22.Vic Sorrell
280
1671.7
23.Hal White
273
820.3
24.Bill Donovan
261
2137.3
25.Frank Tanana
250
1551.3
Innings
RankPlayer IP IP
1.George Mullin
3394.0
3394.0
2.Hooks Dauss
3390.7
3390.7
3.Mickey Lolich
3361.7
3361.7
4.Jack Morris
3042.7
3042.7
5.Hal Newhouser
2944.0
2944.0
6.Tommy Bridges
2826.3
2826.3
7.Dizzy Trout
2591.7
2591.7
8.Earl Whitehill
2171.3
2171.3
9.Bill Donovan
2137.3
2137.3
10.Frank Lary
2008.7
2008.7
11.Jim Bunning
1867.3
1867.3
12.Dan Petry
1843.0
1843.0
13.Virgil Trucks
1800.7
1800.7
14.Vic Sorrell
1671.7
1671.7
15.Denny McLain
1593.0
1593.0
16.Frank Tanana
1551.3
1551.3
17.Ed Willett
1545.7
1545.7
18.Ed Killian
1536.7
1536.7
19.Milt Wilcox
1495.3
1495.3
20.Fred Hutchinson
1464.0
1464.0
21.Schoolboy Rowe
1445.0
1445.0
22.Paul Foytack
1425.3
1425.3
23.Joe Coleman
1407.7
1407.7
24.Walt Terrell
1328.0
1328.0
25.Billy Hoeft
1324.7
1324.7


“It takes pitching, hitting and defense. Any two can win. All three make you unbeatable.”    
–Joe Garagiola
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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Fri May 16, 2008 4:26 pm

And now for the hard stuff we don't see today:

Complete Games
RankPlayer CG IP
1.George Mullin
336
3394.0
2.Hooks Dauss
245
3390.7
3.Bill Donovan
213
2137.3
4.Hal Newhouser
212
2944.0
5.Tommy Bridges
200
2826.3
6.Mickey Lolich
190
3361.7
7.Dizzy Trout
156
2591.7
8.Jack Morris
154
3042.7
9.Earl Whitehill
147
2171.3
10.Ed Killian
142
1536.7
11.Ed Willett
127
1545.7
12.Frank Lary
123
2008.7
13.Vic Sorrell
95
1671.7
14.Denny McLain
94
1593.0
15.Ed Siever
93
1036.0
16.Schoolboy Rowe
92
1445.0
17.Jean Dubuc
90
1145.0
18.Howard Ehmke
89
1236.3
19.Virgil Trucks
84
1800.7
20.Fred Hutchinson
81
1464.0
21.Ed Summers
79
999.0
22.Jim Bunning
78
1867.3
23.Billy Hoeft
71
1324.7
24.Elden Auker
70
1083.7
25.Harry Coveleski
68
1023.3
Frank Kitson
68
683.0
27.Paul Foytack
63
1425.3
Milt Wilcox
63
1495.3
29.George Uhle
62
828.3
30.Bernie Boland
59
1035.0
31.Art Houtteman
58
1076.3
32.Joe Coleman
56
1407.7
Dutch Leonard
56
830.7
34.Bobo Newsom
53
760.3
35.Ted Gray
50
1110.7
Roscoe Miller
50
480.7
37.Dan Petry
48
1843.0
38.Al Benton
47
1218.7
Ned Garver
47
702.0
Don Mossi
47
929.7
41.Lil Stoner
45
984.3
42.Walt Terrell
44
1328.0
43.Hank Aguirre
41
1179.0
44.Ownie Carroll
40
666.0
45.Earl Wilson
39
962.3
46.Stubby Overmire
38
830.7
47.Ken Holloway
37
976.7
Joe Yeager
37
348.7
49.Dave Rozema
36
1007.3
50.Steve Gromek
35
724.0
Red Oldham
35
759.7


“It takes pitching, hitting and defense. Any two can win. All three make you unbeatable.”    
–Joe Garagiola


Last edited by GoGetEmTigers on Mon May 19, 2008 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Fri May 16, 2008 4:27 pm

Shutouts
RankPlayer
SHO
IP
1.Mickey Lolich
39
3361.7
2.George Mullin
34
3394.0
3.Tommy Bridges
33
2826.3

Hal Newhouser
33
2944.0
5.Bill Donovan
29
2137.3
6.Dizzy Trout
28
2591.7
7.Denny McLain
26
1593.0
8.Jack Morris
24
3042.7
9.Hooks Dauss
22
3390.7
10.Frank Lary
20
2008.7

Virgil Trucks
20
1800.7
12.Ed Killian
19
1536.7
13.Jim Bunning
16
1867.3

Billy Hoeft
16
1324.7

Schoolboy Rowe
16
1445.0
16.Fred Hutchinson
13
1464.0
17.Ed Willett
12
1545.7
18.Joe Coleman
11
1407.7

Jean Dubuc
11
1145.0

Art Houtteman
11
1076.3

Ed Siever
11
1036.0

Earl Whitehill
11
2171.3
23.Bernie Boland
10
1035.0

Howard Ehmke
10
1236.3

Dan Petry
10
1843.0

Joe Sparma
10
835.3
27.Elden Auker
9
1083.7

Harry Coveleski
9
1023.3

Stubby Overmire
9
830.7

Ed Summers
9
999.0

Walt Terrell
9
1328.0
32.Al Benton
8
1218.7

Dutch Leonard
8
830.7

Bobo Newsom
8
760.3

Vic Sorrell
8
1671.7
36.Hank Aguirre
7
1179.0

Paul Foytack
7
1425.3

Ted Gray
7
1110.7

Steve Gromek
7
724.0

Willie Mitchell
7
330.7

Don Mossi
7
929.7

Dave Rozema
7
1007.3

Frank Tanana
7
1551.3

Hal White
7
820.3

Milt Wilcox
7
1495.3

Earl Wilson
7
962.3
47.Rip Collins
6
743.0

John Hiller
6
1242.0

Brian Moehler
6
809.0
50.Doyle Alexander
5
540.3

Mark Fidrych
5
412.3

Frank Kitson
5
683.0

Jeff Robinson
5
522.3

George Uhle
5
828.3


“It takes pitching, hitting and defense. Any two can win. All three make you unbeatable.”    
–Joe Garagiola
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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm

And did they have short careers because of all this pitching?? Not really!

Mickey Lolich - 16 years
George Mullin - 14 years
Hal Newhouser - 17 years
Dizzy Trout - 15 years
Jack Morris - 18 years
Jim Bunning - 17 years
Virgil Trucks - 17 years
Joe Coleman - 15 years
Hooks Dauss - 15 years
Milt Wilcox - 16 years


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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Mon May 19, 2008 3:27 pm

Great stats, gogetem.....you are awesome!!
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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Mon May 19, 2008 4:01 pm

tigersaint wrote:
Great stats, gogetem.....you are awesome!!

that's why she's the boss! bow
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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Mon May 19, 2008 8:17 pm

bobrob2004 wrote:
4-man rotation! clap

bow applaud clap

Now make it 3 and I'll really like it!


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PostSubject: Re: Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle   Mon May 19, 2008 8:22 pm

bobrob2004 wrote:
gdennis59 wrote:
bobrob2004 wrote:
4-man rotation! clap

Serious or sarcastic?

Serious. Pitchers now-a-days are too protected. Back in the 60s or 70s it wasn't uncommon for a pitcher to have 25 CG and 300+ innings on 4-man rotations. 12 pitchers in the bullpen is too many also, as any good pitcher can pitch more than 1 inning. Pitchers back then didn't get anymore injured than they do now, yet now they don't have as big of a workload. And they get paid a lot more money. Doesn't quite make sense to me. scratch

Well said!

I'm testing that theory on MLB '08 The Show. My Giants and their 4-man rotation are in first place. And 12 bullpen pitchers is WAY too many. I have 2 closers and 4 other guys (and therefore a 10 man pitching staff). That's plenty! Why 2 closers? Well my closers only come in when they're needed and will often pitch 3 innings and therefore be unable to pitch the next day. If the lead is 3 going into the 9th you can be sure the closer will not be in the game. I had a 12 man pitching staff but at the end of the first month 2 of my pitchers hadn't been used! They're gone!

That leaves FIFTEEN hitters which allows me to have the ultimate platoon advantage:

Against lefty starters: My lineup consists of 7 right-handed batters and a lefty (and the pitcher).

Against righty starters: My lineup consists of 8 left-handed bats and the pitcher.

NOTE: there's some switch hitters in there, too.

Oh yeah, they're currently in first place Stunned


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