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 Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?

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PostSubject: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:48 pm

A handful of state legislatures have declared it's closing time for Sunday alcohol sales restrictions, saying an extra day of sales could give their foundering budgets a much-needed shot of revenue. Those states - Georgia, Connecticut, Texas, Alabama and Minnesota - enjoy overwhelming voter support for an extra day of sales, but face opposition from members of the Christian right, who say that selling on Sunday undermines safety and tears apart families. "During times of economic stress, our families are under enough pressure," says Jim Beck, the president of the Georgia Christian Coalition. "I don't think we need to add even more pressure to those families by passing this law."

But proponents of Sunday sales argue that state budgets are under plenty of pressure too and that by allowing people to buy beer, wine or liquor on Sunday at grocery or package stores, states could reap millions of dollars in tax revenue. Besides, as President Roosevelt learned in the 1930s when he successfully repealed Prohibition, drinks have a way of keeping hopes high when things look bleak. In Johnathan Alter's The Defining Moment: FDR's Hundred Days and the Triumph of Hope, the President recognized that legally-procured cocktails were the way to keep spirits high when Americans were trying to get used to putting their trust into the nation's crumbling banking system again. And, it could be argued, the sales also helped stimulate the economy in the middle of the Great Depression.

"[Sunday sales legislation] always comes bubbling up when the economy goes south," says David Laband, an Auburn University economics professor who authored Blue Laws: The History, Economics, and Politics of Sunday-Closing Laws. Blue laws, which restrict shopping of any kind on Sunday, date back to the colonial era, Laband says. However, those laws gradually died off as economic forces made some states realize that they could stand to gain by having stores open on Sunday. For example, the entry of women into the workforce in World War II made weekend shopping a necessity.

"Slowly and systematically we've seen these laws lifted in past century, even more so when there has been an economic downturn," Laband says. "States realize that consumers will migrate to a place where they can buy what they want. And whatever their reasons are for not wanting to sell on Sunday, these states realize they're paying a price for it in foregone tax revenues. So once the economy goes bad, then the cost of their policies are apparent to them."

Beck argues that when you're facing a budget shortfall in the billions, the extra revenue from an added day of alcohol sales is just a drop in the bucket. His opponents, however, insist it is significant. "At least it's a drop," says Georgia Senator Seth Harp, who introduced a bill proposing local referendums on Sunday sales. "Maybe it's even a cup full. But right now, I'd like to have a couple of cups full than nothing at all."

Three states - Georgia, Connecticut and Indiana - ban the sale of beer, wine and spirits, while 15 ban only liquor sales. Connecticut is considering repealing its ban because it has been losing revenue to New York, Massachusetts and Rhode Island, three neighboring states that repealed Sunday sales bans in 2003. Texas is also reconsidering Sunday sales bans of liquor, with three bills in the state's Senate, two of them specific to sales along the Texas-Mexico border. "States are seeing Sunday sales as a positive way to raise revenue without raising taxes or cutting valuable programs," says Ben Jenkins, spokesman for the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States. "That, along with consumer demand, is driving this change."

And though religious groups have sounded off about how Sunday sales are harmful to families, legislators such as Harp are reaching out to them by adding enforcement provisions designed to crack down on store owners who sell to minors. In a state like Georgia, where more than two-thirds of residents say they'd like to be able to buy a six pack on the sabbath, Harp's efforts may just win his bill votes, even though Governor Sonny Perdue, a teetotaler, said he'd veto any bill that came across his desk.

But Perdue won't be in office forever and anti-Sunday sales advocates across the nation may realize the tide is turning against them too. "People have got a lot of activities that occupy their time, attention and affection on Sunday and shopping is one of them," Laband says. "Churches have had to come to grips with that; they haven't drawn a line in the sand and said 'You have to go to church.' So the trend is clear that states will do away with some of these alcohol prohibitions. It will happen. It's just a matter of when."


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:48 pm

Who knew so many states were so crazy? Stunned


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:53 pm

Not as crazy as no car sales on Sunday in Michigan!


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:20 pm

You can't buy booze until noon on Sunday in Michigan


need to change that
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:11 pm

GoGetEmTigers wrote:
Not as crazy as no car sales on Sunday in Michigan!

That's crazy, too!

Geez, who comes up with these stupid laws?


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:11 pm

gs78 wrote:
You can't buy booze until noon on Sunday in Michigan


need to change that

I thought California was screwed up! Here you can't buy any alcohol of any sort from 2 AM until 6AM 7 days a week - not even at a bar. That's stupid, too.


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:20 pm

catbox_9 wrote:
gs78 wrote:
You can't buy booze until noon on Sunday in Michigan


need to change that

I thought California was screwed up! Here you can't buy any alcohol of any sort from 2 AM until 6AM 7 days a week - not even at a bar. That's stupid, too.

I think that is true for bars here, except Sunday sales start at 1PM.


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:24 am

Nevada has the right system....you can buy alcohol whenever you want.

While I don't think you should ever drink alcohol when the sun is out, I don't see why it is more harmful to consume alcohol at insane hours than normal ones. Some people work weird shifts and get home at 3AM. Why shouldn't they be able to have a drink?


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:33 am

catbox_9 wrote:


While I don't think you should ever drink alcohol when the sun is out

Why the hell not? You have never worked 3rd shift have you?
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:34 am

Nevermind, I should have read your entire post LMAO

Yeah, some people work odd hours is all I was saying.
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:24 am

SoulRat wrote:
Nevermind, I should have read your entire post LMAO

Yeah, some people work odd hours is all I was saying.

Yeah you should have. Either that or you should have known that I don't like to take away rights from people even if I don't agree with the rights that I am defending. Just because I think drinking a pint-and-a-half of vodka at 8AM on a Sunday morning just for the hell of it is wrong, I don't think people should lose that right.

(Note: Obviously I don't think that person has a right to then go drive to the store to buy another couple pints until he/she has sufficiently sobered up)


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:55 pm

Yes sir ashamed
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:26 pm

catbox_9 wrote:
gs78 wrote:
You can't buy booze until noon on Sunday in Michigan


need to change that

I thought California was screwed up! Here you can't buy any alcohol of any sort from 2 AM until 6AM 7 days a week - not even at a bar. That's stupid, too.


And stores stop selling it like at 6pm or 8pm on Christmas Eve and maybe 9 or 10pm on New Years Eve
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:50 pm

gs78 wrote:
catbox_9 wrote:
gs78 wrote:
You can't buy booze until noon on Sunday in Michigan


need to change that

I thought California was screwed up! Here you can't buy any alcohol of any sort from 2 AM until 6AM 7 days a week - not even at a bar. That's stupid, too.


And stores stop selling it like at 6pm or 8pm on Christmas Eve and maybe 9 or 10pm on New Years Eve

Not here. It's the same hours every day. It's a little trickier on Christmas Eve and what not since a lot of stores close early. Places that are open 24 hours will still have alcohol until 2 AM though.


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:40 pm

catbox_9 wrote:
Nevada has the right system....you can buy alcohol whenever you want.

While I don't think you should ever drink alcohol when the sun is out, I don't see why it is more harmful to consume alcohol at insane hours than normal ones. Some people work weird shifts and get home at 3AM. Why shouldn't they be able to have a drink?



Nothing like drinking at 4am or later

I have done lots of times


And I don't even work late hours either
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:41 pm

catbox_9 wrote:
gs78 wrote:
catbox_9 wrote:
gs78 wrote:
You can't buy booze until noon on Sunday in Michigan


need to change that

I thought California was screwed up! Here you can't buy any alcohol of any sort from 2 AM until 6AM 7 days a week - not even at a bar. That's stupid, too.


And stores stop selling it like at 6pm or 8pm on Christmas Eve and maybe 9 or 10pm on New Years Eve

Not here. It's the same hours every day. It's a little trickier on Christmas Eve and what not since a lot of stores close early. Places that are open 24 hours will still have alcohol until 2 AM though.


The 7 Eleven in my neighborhood is 24/7 365

But they won't sell the booze from late Christmas Eve Day until Noon Dec 26
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:41 pm

They so need to change that law
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:34 pm

gs78 wrote:
catbox_9 wrote:
Nevada has the right system....you can buy alcohol whenever you want.

While I don't think you should ever drink alcohol when the sun is out, I don't see why it is more harmful to consume alcohol at insane hours than normal ones. Some people work weird shifts and get home at 3AM. Why shouldn't they be able to have a drink?



Nothing like drinking at 4am or later

I have done lots of times


And I don't even work late hours either

I've never done that outside of a casino. Luckily Nevada is smart with their liquor laws and allows you to buy alcohol every second of every day (of course you don't pay for alcohol in a casino - you drink whatever you want for free).


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:09 pm

catbox_9 wrote:
gs78 wrote:
catbox_9 wrote:
Nevada has the right system....you can buy alcohol whenever you want.

While I don't think you should ever drink alcohol when the sun is out, I don't see why it is more harmful to consume alcohol at insane hours than normal ones. Some people work weird shifts and get home at 3AM. Why shouldn't they be able to have a drink?



Nothing like drinking at 4am or later

I have done lots of times


And I don't even work late hours either

I've never done that outside of a casino. Luckily Nevada is smart with their liquor laws and allows you to buy alcohol every second of every day (of course you don't pay for alcohol in a casino - you drink whatever you want for free).


Really

Free Drinks at the Casino

I need to drive out there someday
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:50 pm

Don't they give free drinks in the Detroit casinos? I thought all casinos gave away free drinks.


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:22 pm

catbox_9 wrote:
Don't they give free drinks in the Detroit casinos? I thought all casinos gave away free drinks.


I don't go to the Detroit Casinos


I refuse to support that corrupt city and its henchmen anymore that I already do by going to Lions, Tigers and Red Wings Games
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:48 pm

gs78 wrote:
catbox_9 wrote:
Don't they give free drinks in the Detroit casinos? I thought all casinos gave away free drinks.


I don't go to the Detroit Casinos


I refuse to support that corrupt city and its henchmen anymore that I already do by going to Lions, Tigers and Red Wings Games

Maybe the Windsor ones?

That's probably a smart move on your part as you should, for the most part, avoid non-Nevadan casinos as they do not offer the same odds as Nevadan casinos. In most jurisdictions it is illegal for a machine to pay back more than it receives over the long run. In Nevada this is not illegal. While most Nevadan machines do pay less than 100%, there are forms of video poker that, when played [b]perfectly[/i] do pay back more than 100% These machines are illegal in Atlantic City. Also, the minimum payback in Nevada is the highest in the nation (some states do not set a minimum).


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:00 pm

At our casino, in Wheeling WV, drinks are NOT FREE like Las Vegas ones.


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:56 pm

GoGetEmTigers wrote:
At our casino, in Wheeling WV, drinks are NOT FREE like Las Vegas ones.

confused

And people go? scratch


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:20 am

catbox_9 wrote:
GoGetEmTigers wrote:
At our casino, in Wheeling WV, drinks are NOT FREE like Las Vegas ones.

confused

And people go? scratch

Yep, they are addicted to the slot machines, dog racing track, and the new table games. They had a whole lot of PA residents come here, but now PA has slot machines, so they lost a bunch of business... thus the vote allowing table gaming, like Vegas.

So far they say it is too expensive to offer free drinks, not realizing that the drinks in Vegas are watered down, only use cheap house brands of liquor, and cause the people to drop their guard down and gamble more than they normally would.


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:36 am

GoGetEmTigers wrote:
catbox_9 wrote:
GoGetEmTigers wrote:
At our casino, in Wheeling WV, drinks are NOT FREE like Las Vegas ones.

confused

And people go? scratch

So far they say it is too expensive to offer free drinks, not realizing that the drinks in Vegas are watered down, only use cheap house brands of liquor, and cause the people to drop their guard down and gamble more than they normally would.

You are right, the casinos in your area are wrong. I would like to clarify some things about Vegas alcohol:
1. They do not add water to drinks that do not call for water. They do save money by making mixed drinks smaller than you'd expect (about half the size - still you can get as many as you want...they come fast if you tip $1 per drink which is far less than it would otherwise cost)
2. While they do use cheap house brands of liquor you can get around that by specifically asking for a better brand. I don't usually do that for a mixed drink because I don't really care, but when I order something by itself I would always ask for a "Bushmills/Jameson/Johnny Walker neat" instead of a "whiskey/Scotch neat" I watch them make the drink and they do give me what I ask for. Also, if you tip your bartender every time he'll suggest a call liquor. Last time I was there I ordered a Manhattan and he asked if I'd prefer a Maker's Mark Manhattan (Maker's Mark being a premium Bourbon)
3. Drunk people will spend more money. Nevada isn't stupid. That's why they offer free drinks. In fact, you'll get served a free alcoholic beverage faster than a free soda.


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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:21 pm

GoGetEmTigers wrote:
At our casino, in Wheeling WV, drinks are NOT FREE like Las Vegas ones.



That stinks


I guess I can cancel plans to head to their casinos lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Will the Recession Doom the Last Sunday Blue Laws?   Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:23 pm

catbox_9 wrote:
gs78 wrote:
catbox_9 wrote:
Don't they give free drinks in the Detroit casinos? I thought all casinos gave away free drinks.


I don't go to the Detroit Casinos


I refuse to support that corrupt city and its henchmen anymore that I already do by going to Lions, Tigers and Red Wings Games

Maybe the Windsor ones?

That's probably a smart move on your part as you should, for the most part, avoid non-Nevadan casinos as they do not offer the same odds as Nevadan casinos. In most jurisdictions it is illegal for a machine to pay back more than it receives over the long run. In Nevada this is not illegal. While most Nevadan machines do pay less than 100%, there are forms of video poker that, when played [b]perfectly[/i] do pay back more than 100% These machines are illegal in Atlantic City. Also, the minimum payback in Nevada is the highest in the nation (some states do not set a minimum).



I haven't been to Windsor since I was 19


Or 20


Actually since before 9-11


Too much hassle going across the border nowadays
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